{"id":187,"date":"2011-03-05T23:44:22","date_gmt":"2011-03-06T04:44:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/?p=187"},"modified":"2011-03-05T23:44:22","modified_gmt":"2011-03-06T04:44:22","slug":"presence-clarity-and-courage-a-conversation-with-julie-landsman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/?p=187","title":{"rendered":"Presence, Clarity, and Courage: A Conversation with Julie Landsman"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"There aren\u2019t many horn players out there who are as revered as Julie Landsman.\u00a0 Recently retired from 25 years as principal horn of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, she continues to teach at the Juilliard School, and was recently in Philadelphia doing some visiting teaching at the Curtis Institute and playing extra with Philadelphia Orchestra on Strauss\u2019 Ein Heldenleben<\/em>.\u00a0 She said she is having the time of her life playing 6th<\/sup> horn and playing some low notes for once!\u00a0 My husband and I took the opportunity of her visit to have dinner with her, and she graciously agreed to allow me to pull out my cassette recorder and tape an interview with her.<\/p>\n

As we were talking, I was reminded (not as if I had forgotten\u2026) of what attracted me to seek her advice and guidance in New York.\u00a0 I never officially studied with her, but after I graduated, had been in a job for a year out of the country, and moved back to New York to freelance, I sought her out for lessons whenever she could manage time for them.\u00a0 One of the greatest things that Julie does (at least for me) is to keep the ultimate purpose of horn-playing elevated and inspired, while bringing the process of getting there into the here and now, very<\/em> practical, rooted in the body, no fuss-no muss.\u00a0 When I left my lessons with Julie, I always felt as if I not only had a vision of where I needed to go, I had a plan of how to get there \u2013 something that I could incorporate the very next time I picked up my horn.\u00a0 I felt stretched both upwards and downwards \u2013 elevated, but grounded. \u00a0It had the effect of bringing a fuzzy lens into very sharp focus.\u00a0 This is powerful, and no doubt why so many of her students have had such great success in the professional horn world.<\/p>\n

I chose the words presence<\/em>, clarity<\/em>, and courage<\/em> to describe my conversation with Julie, not because we talked extensively about those traits, though they were touched upon peripherally somewhat, but more because these are qualities that often have defined the time that I have spent with her, and qualities I believe she fosters so beautifully.<\/p>\n

I wish I could capture for you in the written word her presence, the intention with which she spoke, and the generosity of heart she shared through the following conversation, but I will have to leave that to your imagination as you read her words.<\/p>\n

Enjoy!<\/p>\n

BEGINNINGS<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I understand you were born in Brooklyn, right?\u00a0 Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood and how you found the horn?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

When I was 12 in Ardsley, NY, I wanted to be in the band.\u00a0 And I went to hear a band concert and it just looked like fun.\u00a0 So I told my mother I wanted to play the English horn \u2013 I didn\u2019t even know what it was.\u00a0 She went to my band director, said, \u201cMy daughter wants to play the English horn.\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cWe need French horn players.\u00a0 The English horn will cost you $7 a lesson, but I\u2019ll teach for free if she wants to play the French horn.\u201d\u00a0 My mother spotted a bargain and she said, \u201cOk, she\u2019ll be a horn player.\u201d\u00a0 Simple economics.\u00a0 And he said, \u201cOK.\u00a0 Send your daughter to me.\u00a0 She has to have a good ear and good teeth.\u201d\u00a0 So I showed him my teeth, which he approved of, and he plucked a few notes on the piano and he made me sing them back, and he said, \u201cOK.\u00a0 Go rent a French horn.\u201d\u00a0 And I did.\u00a0 Having heard a band concert and seen baritone horn bell pointing forward, I couldn\u2019t understand how horn players sat.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t get it.\u00a0 I thought, \u201cWell, do they use mirrors and sit backwards?\u201d\u00a0 So that was how I started my career.\u00a0 Horn was in the air, bell up, going \u201cOK!\u00a0 I like the horn!\u201d<\/p>\n

When was it that you realized you wanted to be a horn player?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

From very early on.\u00a0 I could play it right away.\u00a0 There were very few things I could do well – very few.\u00a0 I was a bad student, I got in trouble from my parents for doing all kinds of things, but I could play the horn.\u00a0 It was easy.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

What can you tell me about studying with James Chambers at Juilliard?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

He was imperious\u2026.I think that might have been shades of his teacher Anton Horner with the Philadelphia Orchestra and the Curtis Institute — funny to talk about them here.<\/p>\n

[We were dining at Parc in Philadelphia right across the street from Curtis<\/em>].<\/p>\n

He was very much about sound.\u00a0 I had never heard about tone, and I had never heard about support \u2013 air.\u00a0 My teacher had never mentioned them to me in high school.\u00a0 Not once did those topics come up.\u00a0 And in my first lesson with Chambers when he mentioned using support, it was like, \u201chuh? What\u2019s that?\u00a0 Use my air?\u00a0 Never even heard of it!\u00a0 What\u2019s air?\u00a0 Have a sound?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, I had a sound, but my playing was not based on sound at that time.\u00a0 So Chambers changed my entire sensibility pretty quickly.\u00a0 No regrets!<\/p>\n

Where were you after school?\u00a0 Did you go immediately to a job?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I had a job in Canada because my boyfriend was a horn player in the Toronto Symphony, and I wanted to be near him.\u00a0\u00a0 And the National Ballet of Canada had a first horn opening, and I took the audition and I won.\u00a0 And I guess that\u2019s the first job I had out of school.\u00a0 We went on the road a lot and made a lot of money, quickly, which was not my goal, but it happened kind of young, so that was my first professional job in a semi-full-time way.<\/p>\n

Then after that I was a freelancer.\u00a0 I played a bit with St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, and extra with the [New York] Philharmonic.\u00a0 I played with Orpheus \u2013 way back when! \u2013 and American Symphony.\u00a0 You know there was a lot more work in New York.\u00a0 A lot more work.\u00a0\u00a0 This was in the late 70\u2019s \u2013 a very busy time.\u00a0 I played extra with the Met.\u00a0 Stage band.\u00a0 I thought it was the greatest thing.\u00a0 I used to kiss the ground when I walked in the stage door.\u00a0\u00a0 To me it was a sacred place.<\/p>\n

The Met?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

I had my eye on the chair.<\/p>\n

From way back then\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

From age thirteen.\u00a0 Because I met the first horn Howard Howard who became my teacher \u2013 that was when I was 13, so from 13 to 18 I was at the opera five times a week in standing room, with opera glasses.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t really look on stage.\u00a0 I was [looking] in the pit.\u00a0 I\u2019ve spent much of my life involved in that Met pit, in one way or another.<\/p>\n

Then you were in Houston for three years, then to the Met from there.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Twenty-five years at the Met.<\/p>\n

THOUGHTS ABOUT A LIFE IN MUSIC<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

So, I wonder, what are the things that you find the most satisfying about being a professional musician?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Two things come to mind:\u00a0 the first one is collaboration.\u00a0 The second one is sound \u2013 the composite of sound.\u00a0 I like that.\u00a0 I like finding someone\u2019s sound.\u00a0 I like working within it.\u00a0 I like the partnership \u2013 the partnership of sound.\u00a0 I\u2019m not sure that the average person would get that, but that\u2019s the joy \u2013 that\u2019s so cool!\u00a0 Hard to teach, but I try.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

What for you have been the biggest challenges of being a musician?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Maintaining Self.\u00a0 It\u2019s so important to have yourself intact when you\u2019ve got your horn in your hands.\u00a0 Your ego, who you are, what you have to say.\u00a0 And that gets thrown off by other influences, be they conductors or colleagues, or people who might have their own agendas.\u00a0 To not get thrown off my path, and really stick strong \u2013 it has been a big learning curve for me, big learning curve.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, it seems there\u2019s a very fine balance when you are a part of an organization or an ensemble, and must give up something of yourself to be a part of that, to be part of something larger than you are\u2026.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2026and then not lose who you are, especially in the hot seat.\u00a0 See, it\u2019s easier as a section player, and more acceptable.\u00a0 But in that hot seat, if you\u2019re missing pieces of YOU, that\u2019s a stressful situation, and I\u2019ve had plenty of that.\u00a0 To me that is toxic\u2026that\u2019s poison.\u00a0 I used to have to work pretty hard inside to conjure up lots of strength inside of me to go out there and do it.\u00a0\u00a0 Unbelievable courage.<\/p>\n

Yes, courage<\/strong>\u2026<\/p>\n

Major acts of courage on a daily basis.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not sure the average person understands what it\u2019s like to put yourself out there like that.<\/strong><\/p>\n

No\u2026or you get a reviewer going after you\u2026\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t matter [if what they say is true or not].\u00a0 It comes from a place where they don\u2019t understand what it takes to get out there, and put yourself out there.<\/p>\n

THOUGHTS ABOUT THE STATE OF THE ARTS AND TEACHING<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

One thing that has been on my mind a lot recently is the state of the arts and how things are changing so quickly. \u00a0I believe it is in part because of technology – people are participating in music in different ways than they have in the past. \u00a0And the economy is not helping these days either. \u00a0I often feel like it\u2019s the end of an era in a certain way.\u00a0 But I wonder if you could share some of your thoughts about the music business and about changes in the world and technology and the way people are participating in music or not participating, as the case may be\u2026.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

I have a way in terms of the state of the arts of trying not to go there, because I think it\u2019s awful, and I don\u2019t know how much I can do to influence it, so I try to keep [my approach] very basic. \u201cCan I help this person be a better horn player?\u201d\u00a0 As a teacher, I can\u2019t even at this point imagine what job they\u2019re going to go for, but can I help them play the horn better? Can I help them be a better person in how they approach their work with other human beings?\u00a0 How [can I teach them to] take responsibility?\u00a0 There\u2019s much to be taught. Yet it\u2019s a very different world than when I started teaching\u2026<\/p>\n

Another question I have along these same lines: what are the biggest challenges for young horn players these days, in your opinion, and do you have any advice or thoughts for them?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

I do have some thoughts.\u00a0 Unless it means everything to you, don\u2019t waste your good time and money.\u00a0 There still we be jobs for the few-and-far-between exceptionals, but in order to be exceptional, you have to put 100% in every day for many, many years with no guarantee at the end.\u00a0 So those are tough odds, but if that\u2019s where you\u2019re at, don\u2019t let anyone talk you out of it.<\/p>\n

Teaching is very important to you, I know, and I know many of your students.\u00a0 And I wonder if you\u2019ve had any observations over the years about the ones who are most successful in the horn world and if there are qualities that these exceptional students share? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes.\u00a0 Self-motivation.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have to tell them to work.\u00a0 They bring it in.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to waste my time telling a kid to work.\u00a0 It pisses me off to even think about telling someone to work!\u00a0 And unfortunately I do have to do that on occasion.\u00a0 For me the perfect formula is someone who is gifted naturally musically, because I cannot teach someone to feel.\u00a0 I don\u2019t even know how to teach someone to listen.\u00a0 I try.\u00a0 That\u2019s a toughie too. But a gifted student who has a natural, musical feel who needs to grow up, be exposed to how to put it together in a beautiful package, bring them to me, but they have to be 100% self-motivated.\u00a0 Do not look to me for motivation.\u00a0 I\u2019ll support yours.\u00a0 Emphatically.<\/p>\n

FAVORITE THINGS<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Who have been some of the most influential people in your life?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Carmine Caruso.\u00a0 Without skipping a beat!<\/p>\n

Tell me about him.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

I loved him.\u00a0 He was a great human being, a great teacher, a fantastic influence on my playing, my life, and my teaching.\u00a0 HUGE influence.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

You worked with him for a long time?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

I did.\u00a0 He taught my high school band teacher trumpet.\u00a0 And then he started working with my high school band.\u00a0 So, since I was 14 I\u2019ve been doing his stuff – that\u2019s when I met him.\u00a0 He also started to teach my horn teacher \u2013 all through my high school band director in Ardsley, NY.\u00a0 Carmine came and coached the band.\u00a0 We would do the 6 notes and intervals and pedal f-sharps and chromatic scales as a band for our warm-ups every morning.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Could you tell me about his philosophy and approach?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah.\u00a0 He taught with a very gentle hand, with a lot of love and a lot of kindness, and taking a lot of responsibility as the teacher to teach you.\u00a0 It was not a negative \u201cyou can\u2019t do this.\u00a0 You sound like &%#!.\u201d\u00a0 More like, he took the job seriously of making you sound better and teaching you how to do something and really dispensed with the negativity that some teachers use.\u00a0 I so<\/em> ate it up.\u00a0 For me, it was like having Mr. Rogers as my horn teacher.\u00a0 The main philosophy is, \u201cI like you just the way you are, and now if we\u2019re going to like you even more, I will teach you how to get from point A to point B.\u00a0 All you have to do is do what I teach you.\u201d\u00a0 And I did.\u00a0 It worked like magic.\u00a0 Magic!\u00a0 Wow!\u00a0 I like that!<\/p>\n

The exercises are sort of like calisthenics, right?\u00a0 And based on timing\u2026.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, it\u2019s a fairly physical approach.\u00a0 And the point isn\u2019t so much to keep at a physical plane \u2013 it\u2019s to free the body to play music.\u00a0 So it\u2019s about training <\/em>so that you\u2019re completely free when you play without having the physical issues that hang up a lot of players.\u00a0 It works really well.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Someone I know equated it to Iyengar Yoga.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Which I love!\u00a0 That\u2019s the kind of yoga I\u2019ve been practicing.<\/p>\n

I remember that \u2013 so I find it very interesting that you are attracted to both things.<\/strong><\/p>\n

How did they make those parallels?<\/p>\n

I think it was the exactness of the Iyengar approach \u2013 the scientific, sort of physical focus of it that seemed to this person to be similar.<\/strong><\/p>\n

You know I haven\u2019t figured out exactly what it is about it that appeals to me in a similar way.\u00a0 It might be that it\u2019s structured, with very specific instructions, that I just find that works.\u00a0 In both situations it works!\u00a0 I like structure.\u00a0 I need it.\u00a0 I really do, because I\u2019m not that structured in my being.\u00a0 So I enjoy: \u201cDo it like this.\u201d\u00a0 I like that very much!<\/p>\n

Now I remember a few years ago we had talked about Jack Kornfield\u2019s book A Path With Heart<\/em><\/strong> and we shared an affinity for it.\u00a0 I wonder if there are other books out there that you really love and that you like sharing with people.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well along the lines of meditation, I\u2019m a real fan of Sylvia Boorstein.\u00a0 Do you know her?\u00a0 She is what they call a Jewbu.\u00a0 She\u2019s one of my people.\u00a0 She\u2019s a little Jewish lady from Brooklyn \u2013 I relate to her very well.\u00a0 And her meditation style is \u201cMetta\u201d meditation \u2013 loving-kindness, and it\u2019s absolutely beautiful.\u00a0 And this is the stuff I would do before my performances where I really wanted to hit a home run.\u00a0 I did a lot of Metta mediation.\u00a0 It really made a difference.\u00a0 Huge difference.\u00a0 I would still do it today for particular performances should the occasion arise.\u00a0 The Pavane \u2013 do you remember what happened for that concert?<\/p>\n

[a concert Julie and I did together while on tour with Orpheus Chamber Orchestra several years ago<\/em>]<\/p>\n

Before the concert?\u00a0 Yes, I remember.\u00a0 You were in your own space.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, I was doing a meditation for a friend who had just died in Cleveland \u2013 the bassoonist Lynette Diers Cohen.\u00a0 Frank Cohen\u2019s wife.\u00a0 Do you remember that?<\/p>\n

Yes, I never met her, but know her as Diana\u2019s mother.<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes.\u00a0 I just spent Christmas with the rest of the Cohen\u2019s who are left, which we\u2019ve done since Lynette died.\u00a0 But that was shortly after she died and it was Valentine\u2019s Day when we played in Cleveland.\u00a0 And that Pavane was for her.\u00a0 I still cry thinking about it.\u00a0 She was onstage with me, and I really played for her.\u00a0 And there\u2019s no better place to play from than your heart \u2013 IF you are secure technically.\u00a0 And that\u2019s where the Caruso piece fits in.\u00a0 All I\u2019ve got to do is set my timing up and make sure I take a nice breath and use it, and that\u2019s all the technique that I need besides the flow of the subdivision to keep it structured.\u00a0 So that all my attention could be on sound, expression, seeing Lynette in my heart.\u00a0 Huge stuff.\u00a0 You have to be pretty evolved on many levels to do that.\u00a0 In other words, you have to be pretty secure with your technique.\u00a0 I can\u2019t really think of a first horn player who wouldn\u2019t get their shorts in a bunch over the Pavane, which, my shorts were a little bunched.\u00a0 But I certainly was able to shift over to a much more spiritual base for the performance.<\/p>\n

One last question: is there anything that you\u2019ve learned over the years that you keep coming back to, something that strikes you as a big truth and very important?<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

Something does come to mind.\u00a0 And that\u2019s about being a good colleague.\u00a0\u00a0 I think it\u2019s really important to treat people respectfully.\u00a0 What goes around comes around.\u00a0 I believe in that really strongly.<\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

That seems to be a good place to conclude \u2013 in thinking about how to treat others.\u00a0 Julie, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and feelings with us and for being so open and giving of yourself in answering these questions. <\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

There aren\u2019t many horn players out there who are as revered as Julie Landsman.\u00a0 Recently retired from 25 years as principal horn of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, she continues to teach at the Juilliard School, and was recently in Philadelphia … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_s2mail":"yes","footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-187","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interviews-with-professional-horn-players"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/187","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=187"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/187\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":938,"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/187\/revisions\/938"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=187"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=187"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.angelashornstudio.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=187"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}